Pseudo-Secularism

Hindu dharma is implicitly at odds with monotheistic intolerance. What is happening in India is a new historical awakening... Indian intellectuals, who want to be secure in their liberal beliefs, may not understand what is going on. But every other Indian knows precisely what is happening: deep down he knows that a larger response is emerging even if at times this response appears in his eyes to be threatening.

Thursday, June 30, 2005

“We have had one year of total UPA nonsense” -George Fernandes

Exclusive Interview to Organiser Correspondent Pramod Kumar

NDA convenor Shri George Fernandes feels that he will tell the world what exactly Indira Gandhi’s dictatorship was and now what kind of threats our democracy is facing in the country. In an exclusive interview to Organiser correspondent Pramod Kumar, Shri Fernandes said the UPA government must be exposed on the issue of price rise, misrule, threat to national security and Sonia Gandhi's emergence as an unconstitutional power centre. “We have had one year of total nonsense, in fact one year of total breach of promise. We should use every means at our disposal to mobilise people,” he said, adding that Sonia Gandhi’s emergence as an unconstitutional power centre was going to destroy the democratic polity of the country. Excerpts:

On the 30th anniversary of Emergency, are you planning to organise a campaign to make people aware of the black deeds of Smt Indira Gandhi?

I have started it long back. I have been speaking about it on every occasion that I get. For the next few days, there will be a series of meetings all over the country. In Bangalore, we are going to have a major demonstration and a meeting, which will be attended by Atalji, Advanji and lot of people who were put in jail, to tell the world what exactly Smt. Indira Gandhi’s dictatorship was and now what kind of threats our democracy is facing.

“Siachin is crucial to our security. It's unimaginable how PM said what he said.”

You along with RSS and other nationalist organisations were instrumental in fighting Emergency. How do you see the second emergence of the Gandhi family on the Indian political scene?

When there was a kind of talk in the country that after Nehru who, a lot of names were being bandied about. Dr Ram Manohar Lohia had come to Mumbai at that time. I was then the secretary of Bombay unit of Socialist Party. We held a press conference wherein the press asked Dr Lohia, “Sir, after Nehru who?” Dr Lohia said, “Aren’t you aware? After Nehru, Indira Gandhi! He has made an arrangement for that. He is grooming her for that and you people have not seen that.” It was taken as a joke then. So, the khandaan was planned by Pandit Nehru, carried on by Indira Gandhi and now another generation is sought to be brought in. Everything this family has done is for holding the country to ransom. What they are doing is essentially for this reason. They have nothing to do with democracy. They don’t care for democracy and that is why the Emergency was imposed. When Indira Gandhi realised that even within her own party there were people who would knock her out, she decided to go in for a dictatorship. But we fought against it and also felt that such a situation should not arise again in our country. When I say such a situation, it is not just Emergency, but what the country had to go through during the Emergency. Even the right to life had been taken away. I remind it to those who want to know my credentials. They are shameless fellows, utterly shameless.

Don’t you think the Opposition has failed in highlighting the emergence of Smt. Sonia Gandhi as an unconstitutional power centre?

Yes, it is an unconstitutional power centre. Nobody has to make any declaration on it. She is not a constitutional authority at all. And it is the eternal shame for the Congress party as it has brought the country to this kind of situation. This can have serious consequences for our democracy. There is a Prime Minister but there are different people to take the salute. I don’t think this can happen anywhere in the world. I do not know what we have become, thanks to the Congress party’s way of functioning.

Do you think that Dr Manmohan Singh’s government will be able to get away with the price rise, Hurriyat visit to Pakistan and Sonia Gandhi’s Russia visit?

What is really of concern is the price rise. These people came to power by making a lot of promises knowing that they were lying to the people. They claimed that they would give job to every family, would give extra funding to farmers, etc. But nothing has happened. The farmers are committing suicide everyday. Practically, there is no governance in the country. The next thing would be to plant some other fellow and say that now this is our successor. The price issue needs to be taken up seriously and if this government is not exposed, the life will become very miserable. It comes from Indira Gandhi who would say, Vo kahate hain Indira hatao, mein kahati huin, gharibi hatao, faisla apaka. She knew that there was no damn way of doing away with poverty from India, it was going to take some generations. But people took it, voted her and gave her power. Today, we have to fight back and it should start from June 25.

You along with Shri Subramaniam Swamy and other leaders were pushing the false affidavit case against Smt. Sonia Gandhi. Is it still on?

I cannot tell you whether it is still on. I remember what Swamy said to me that they have not finally been disposed off. But it is again a one-person effort. There are a lot of people in the country, some of whom have used their position to see that this case does not come up. And when the case came up, they did not get the right lawyers. When they get the right lawyers, they persuade them not to stand up. This is how the whole game is going on. We have become some kind of a banana republic, which will make the life miserable.

Today a large part of our resources are going to national security, internal security and fighting the proxy war of a sort that still continues. We need to see that the peace process is not derailed by the wrong actions of the present establishment.

There is a general belief that the NDA let off Dr Manmohan Singh’s government very easily, in spite of its various anti-people actions and failures on the economic front?

Yes, it is true. But ultimately it is the people who have to be mobilised. What I see that there is something that makes people feel that when nothing good can happen, why I should get into the fight. There is some kind of frustration. There was a time when even on hike of an aana in bus fare, the people would not allow buses to run. Railways increasing the price of tickets, it should be stopped. Prices of daily needs are going up, there should be satyagraha. But today what one finds is a certain sense of frustration. We have to mobilise people for any kind of major action. The major action has to be a genuine people’s movement, whether it is the working class, farmers, contract labour, shopkeepers, or people who work in various areas of our economic development. We need to get all these people together. I believe it is possible, provided there is a leadership that really says that enough is enough. We have had one year of total nonsense, in fact one year of total breach of promise. We should use every means at our disposal to mobilise people. That can bring about a total turn around.

As a former Defence Minister, how do you react to Dr Manmohan Singh’s statement that Siachin can be made a ‘mountain of peace’ by withdrawing Indian troops, for which over 700 soldiers sacrificed their lives?

I am also surprised at this statement. I can’t imagine how he came to this kind of conclusion, as Siachin is very critical for our security in that area. If he has come to any kind of understanding with Pakistan and China, I don’t not know where it will land us, not to the peak of peace. It may land us to a level where it will be difficult for us to recover. We should not take everything so casually. I am both surprised and upset.

Then, why are the opposition parties silent on this issue?

What has happened is that various parties in our country have been in government and once a party gets into power, most of the people think that they are going to be there till doomsday. And therefore, they never take an opposition position again. This kind of mindset has developed in our country. I have seen this from the time when we first succeeded in forming a non-Congress government. Those who were members of that government subsequently were not prepared to sit in the Opposition. They thought that having been a minister it was beyond their dignity to be in the Opposition. Not everyone, of course. That mindset still continues.

I have just been informed that Shri Sudarshanji’s statement was not just a one-line or a one-sentence statement. But he had made a very long statement in which he had shown Indira Gandhi in her true colours, not just one colour, but in genuine colours. It appears that the media thought that it would create one more dispute between parties or people. This is something that the media should not have done.

Does it mean that political interest is above national interest?

Patriotism has been at a discount in our country at every level. Let us face it. The Marxists laugh at it when we talk about patriotism. Most of them don’t know what patriotism is all about. They don’t know what is one’s love for the country. Everything that is great about India, they cannot care about it. That is the problem.

Smt. Sonia Gandhi’s recent visit to Russia was a serious matter the way in which she discussed policy issues and made the Foreign Minister accompany her, though she holds no official position. Do you think that the Opposition has failed in highlighting the impropriety in a sufficient manner?

I think there has been criticism of it. The Opposition has not completely overlooked it. As far as the NDA is concerned, it has taken exception to it and very strong statement has gone out. It is something again that should shame the Congress party as it continues with this duality of governance and leadership. The Foreign Minister who had accompanied her should also have thought about it. That it did not strike to him shows the kind of governance we are having today. It is destroying our democratic polity.

Why are you not confronting more forcefully?

Obviously, there has to be a triggering point. Now whether that time has come which will trigger a situation is yet to be seen. In my view, it has come and we need to become immediately active at the national level, not in our respective villages or towns. Everyone has to be mobilised with a certain determination that we have to do away with this mess that the Congress party has created.

Given the kind of intolerance and witch hunt the UPA government has unleashed, do you see another threat from the Gandhi family?

This family is worth nothing. Why should we talk about this family? It is the Congress Party. It is the one that has created this situation. If the party would have functioned, if it had the patriotic fervour, it would not have allowed this kind of situation to arise at all. If tomorrow the party wants to flaunt someone on your head, it will do it. If you then ask why this is happening, it is happening because the Congress Pparty is doing it. Therefore, this government has to go.

What is the NDA’s approach to the ongoing Indo-Pak peace efforts?

It is an effort that was started by the government headed by Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee. It had a good take-off and went on very smoothly. Whether it is lack of understanding, what exactly had been initiated by Atalji, the successor government has started mucking up some of these things. The way they acted about the Hurriyat visit to Pakistan, the way they are talking about Siachin glacier and the way they are discussing all these issues, indicate that they do not know which way to take the peace process. It is another reason this government should go.

“Sonia as an unconstitutional power centre will destroy democracy.”


Do you think that our position on Kashmir has weakened?

I don’t think that our position has weakened as such. Over a period of time the NDA government brought everything under control. I believe if this government had not committed too many mistakes, this process would have been taken to its logical end. It is very important because our country needs the resources to rise. Today a large part of our resources are going to national security, internal security and fighting against the proxy war of a sort that still continues. We need to see that the peace process is not derailed by the wrong actions of the present establishment.

Shri Sudarshanji’s remarks about Smt. Indira Gandhi were wrongly quoted by the media. Now when it is clear that he did not praise her as the media reported, would you like to comment on it?

I have just been informed that Shri Sudarshanji’s statement was not just a one-line or a one-sentence statement. But he had made a very long statement in which he had shown Indira Gandhi in her true colours, not just one colour, but in genuine colours. It appears that the media thought that it would create one more dispute between parties or people. This is something that the media should not have done. If I make a statement, the entire statement should be published. If you pick up a part of it and publish it out of context, it is wrong. The media should stop creating such misunderstanding. This is no way of being the fourth estate.

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